Something funny hit me while arguing with reddit idiots.

[RR]

Irony:

Cursing the mortgage industry for providing services to unqualified buyers thus imploding the housing market.

Cursing the health industry for NOT providing services to unqualified buyers, thus keeping health care rates affordable.

[RR]

ME:You do realize that, despite what you want to believe, health care is a BUSINESS and a service provided by companies who want to make money.

Ironic how everyone cursed the mortgage industry for giving out loans to unqualified people, inploding the housing market. Yet now, it's curse these companies for NOT providing a service for unqualified people.

I disagree with cutting someone's benefits if they are already under a plan and they have a major medical emergency. That's a completely different point.


Idiot: so on your premise, it's ok to make billions of profit at the expense and death of the American people. Sick.

[TeRRoRiFiC35]

Unqualified buyers get medical care, its called you and me paying for it through our taxes and being redistributed as Medicaid (something I'll never be able to use but illegals always manage to use it)

[P-SPEC]

lol....why even waste the keystrokes?

[RR]

Im bored at work

[RR]

Shit, why not make Geico give out auto insurance to everyone.

Wreck 18 cars least year? Sure, full coverage for $10 bucks a month.

I should be able to wreck my truck, sign up for Geico, and have them fix it...for next to nothing. They'd be raking in the money

[DSMpower92]

fuck it i'm signing up for welfare

[InfamousDX]

so then what do we do with the poor naggers who can't afford the health care?

[DSMpower92]

Ship em back to Africa, or since the gov. is on a budget, we'll just ship em half way back.

[RR]

Originally Posted by InfamousDX

so then what do we do with the poor naggers who can't afford the health care?

Health care isn't a right. Not one sentence in our constitution says that the government or private corporations are legally bound to give cheap health care.

It's a business. Businesses need to make money. Doctors need to make money.

On another note. What do you think will happen to doctors once the government will charge 50% of what health insurance companies do now? Do you think they'll be happy when they spent over $100,000 for med school to get paid shit. What do we get? A whole lot of sick people and a lot less people becoming doctors.

[Enigma]

do those companies need to make as much money? does the doctor really need that maseratti?

[Harry]

Originally Posted by RR

Health care isn't a right. Not one sentence in our constitution says that the government or private corporations are legally bound to give cheap health care.

It's a business. Businesses need to make money. Doctors need to make money.

On another note. What do you think will happen to doctors once the government will charge 50% of what health insurance companies do now? Do you think they'll be happy when they spent over $100,000 for med school to get paid shit. What do we get? A whole lot of sick people and a lot less people becoming doctors.

LOL this is not an argument you can WIN. No wonder you're getting frustrated. There is no right and wrong regarding health care, it's a simple matter of 2 things. Do you think you should only get health care if you can afford it, or do you think you should get it regardless.

That's it.

It's a business and doctors need to make money, OR, it isn't a business, and doctors need to get paid, which they will. It's what camp you prefer.

I don't know who you're arguing against over there, but they're giving all the wrong reasons.

I don't know what's in the constitution, nor do I care where my morals are concerned. If the constitution doesn't allow it then it doesn't allow for it. Whatever. But, if I think there's a system that is "unconstitutional" yet better, then what's wrong with advocating it? You are free to disagree with the concept, but you cannot say the concept doesn't make any sense because it is illegal. You have to say it doesn't make any sense because it isn't feasable.

And it is feasable. It works everywhere else. There's no reason it can't work there, constitutions aside.

As for doctors, what will they do? They'll do what all the doctors do in every other nationalized system in the world, they will work as doctors. They will still command top salaries. If doctors in the US are kajillionaires whereas they should just be millionaires, well that's just not enough reason to hold back a different system. The US has the most inefficient and most expensive healthcare in the world.

It can be changed, and it will still work. This is why there is no argument. The only fact is you will have a different system. It will be worse in some ways and better in others. From this point on it's purely ideology. Do you like it or not?

[mjr4189]

Originally Posted by Enigma

do those companies need to make as much money? does the doctor really need that maseratti?

I'm sorry i thought this was America. If someone wants to spend money on a Maserati then let them, especially if that person is one of the people keeping our country healthy. Thank you Capitalism!

And I'm not saying i enjoy being robbed by the ridiculous cost of products and services in today's world. I'm jsut saying if a Maserati is incentive to become a doctor and hopefully a good one, than by all means let them have their god damn Maserati's.

[Harry]

Originally Posted by mjr4189

I'm sorry i thought this was America. If someone wants to spend money on a Maserati then let them, especially if that person is one of the people keeping our country healthy. Thank you Capitalism!

And I'm not saying i enjoy being robbed by the ridiculous cost of products and services in today's world. I'm jsut saying if a Maserati is incentive to become a doctor and hopefully a good one, than by all means let them have their god damn Maserati's.

the point is he will still drive a maserati, drive past the hospital parking over here, it's full of brand new porsches benzez, high end bimmers. there was a carrera gt one day. the local doctor here lives in a fucking mansion, has a yatch bigger than my house. Takes holidays every 3 months it seems. I honestly wouldn't worry about doctors financial situations. Even if the tuition costs 100k, that quickly becomes pretty petty.

[nhlfan]

Originally Posted by Harry

LOL this is not an argument you can WIN. No wonder you're getting frustrated. There is no right and wrong regarding health care, it's a simple matter of 2 things. Do you think you should only get health care if you can afford it, or do you think you should get it regardless.

That's it.

It's a business and doctors need to make money, OR, it isn't a business, and doctors need to get paid, which they will. It's what camp you prefer.

I don't know who you're arguing against over there, but they're giving all the wrong reasons.

I don't know what's in the constitution, nor do I care where my morals are concerned. If the constitution doesn't allow it then it doesn't allow for it. Whatever. But, if I think there's a system that is "unconstitutional" yet better, then what's wrong with advocating it? You are free to disagree with the concept, but you cannot say the concept doesn't make any sense because it is illegal. You have to say it doesn't make any sense because it isn't feasable.

And it is feasable. It works everywhere else. There's no reason it can't work there, constitutions aside.

As for doctors, what will they do? They'll do what all the doctors do in every other nationalized system in the world, they will work as doctors. They will still command top salaries. If doctors in the US are kajillionaires whereas they should just be millionaires, well that's just not enough reason to hold back a different system. The US has the most inefficient and most expensive healthcare in the world.

It can be changed, and it will still work. This is why there is no argument. The only fact is you will have a different system. It will be worse in some ways and better in others. From this point on it's purely ideology. Do you like it or not?

[RR]

Harry, my arguement wasn't for the status quo, I agree health care premiums are too high and people should not be denied when they are already paying for coverage. The fact is that without damaging our capitalist system via the government dictating how private corporations do business. What are they going to do? Cap the profits these companies make? What if they want to cap my wages because congress decided that I make too much money?

[InfamousDX]

Originally Posted by Harry

the point is he will still drive a maserati, drive past the hospital parking over here, it's full of brand new porsches benzez, high end bimmers. there was a carrera gt one day. the local doctor here lives in a fucking mansion, has a yatch bigger than my house. Takes holidays every 3 months it seems. I honestly wouldn't worry about doctors financial situations. Even if the tuition costs 100k, that quickly becomes pretty petty.

SPECIALISTS salaries are pretty sick but general practitioners get jack shit in comparison. This is why there are so few docs coming out of school for general... it's both a personal AND financial decision... tough to pay back $300K worth of loans on the salary of a general practitioner.

[P-SPEC]

General Practitoners are awful...at least around here.

Their answer to everything is "uhh go see a specialist" "uhh go to physical therapy" "uhh take these here antibiotics" "uhh take these anti-inflammatories"

I can't count how many times ive been misdiagnosed by primary care physicians over the past 5 years.

[RR]

Originally Posted by P-SPEC

General Practitoners are awful...at least around here.

Their answer to everything is "uhh go see a specialist" "uhh go to physical therapy" "uhh take these here antibiotics" "uhh take these anti-inflammatories"

I can't count how many times ive been misdiagnosed by primary care physicians over the past 5 years.

That's how the military works. You see someone, who isn't even a doctor btw, and if it's anything motrin and a few days rest can't cure, then it's off to a specialist.

I could sit in a room with Web MD on my browser and do that job.

[Harry]

Originally Posted by RR

Harry, my arguement wasn't for the status quo, I agree health care premiums are too high and people should not be denied when they are already paying for coverage. The fact is that without damaging our capitalist system via the government dictating how private corporations do business. What are they going to do? Cap the profits these companies make? What if they want to cap my wages because congress decided that I make too much money?

well as i understand it, the proposed system is really a hybrid of socialized medicine that is based on private insurance, so yeah, it could turn out to be the worst of both worlds. If you're going to continue to require insurance to cover health care, and at the same time intervene with regulations telling the companies how much to charge and what to cover, I mean that sounds like a disaster. You might just be going from clusterfuck to clusterfuck. That's not to say the status quo is not in need of a serious adjustment, especially where coverage denial is concerned, but you're opening the floodgates to a potential nightmare.

My position is that it has to be either one or the other, but if you're going to have a public system then it has to be funded by the government. Doctors bill the hospital, the hospital bills the patient, the government pays the bill. Insurance companies can do whatever they want because they don't hold the decision as to whether you get treatment or not. Insuarance companies have a place in public medicine, they offer prescription coverage, more private rooms, coverage for non essential things that you have to otherwise pay for like physio, home care, therapy, dental, eyecare, things of that nature. Many companies offer these as benefits to attract employees. There's no need to regulate them because they are strictly a business offering a product that can be considered a luxury, not a necessety to life.

[RR]

Originally Posted by Harry

My position is that it has to be either one or the other, but if you're going to have a public system then it has to be funded by the government. Doctors bill the hospital, the hospital bills the patient, the government pays the bill. Insurance companies can do whatever they want because they don't hold the decision as to whether you get treatment or not. Insuarance companies have a place in public medicine, they offer prescription coverage, more private rooms, coverage for non essential things that you have to otherwise pay for like physio, home care, therapy, dental, eyecare, things of that nature. Many companies offer these as benefits to attract employees. There's no need to regulate them because they are strictly a business offering a product that can be considered a luxury, not a necessety to life.

I agree. Fully socialized medicine, or fully private.

What doctor is going to work for government funds rather than get paid 2x as much in the private world.

[boosted]

I'm sick because I can't afford to eat..here's some free food

I'm sick because I live outside under a bride..here's some shelter

When you give someone a right to healthcare what's the point in working anymore?

[Harry]

WAT? where do you guys come up with this seriously? I mean let's not completely lose our minds here shall we?

Healthcare doesn't make you lazy. Welfare that is overly generous perhaps, but whether you're covered by public health or private health isn't going to affect your work ethic. I don't know anyong who doesn't feel the need to work because they have healthcare. I can't even say it's a stretch of the imagination because I can't even envision a scenario that I've ever seen where I could say yeah, of course they don't bother working for a living, we have universal health care. It's just not like that.

[Harry]

Idk then again, you've stayed in many countries that have universal healthcare, not trying to imply I know what it's like there, maybe you've seen a deteriorated work ethic due to universal healthcare in some asian countries? I don't know. I'm speaking strictly of the north american system that I know and the european systems that I know, I can honestly say that would be the last effect on the population that I would ever worry about.

[boosted]

Originally Posted by Harry

Idk then again, you've stayed in many countries that have universal healthcare, not trying to imply I know what it's like there, maybe you've seen a deteriorated work ethic due to universal healthcare in some asian countries? I don't know. I'm speaking strictly of the north american system that I know and the european systems that I know, I can honestly say that would be the last effect on the population that I would ever worry about.

I live in a country where it is sink or swim. There's no free lunch here.

I'd love to discuss more but I need to take off.

Yes, I provided you with extreme examples but wouldn't free healthcare provide people with what they need to survive I.E Food?