View Full Version : LS1 VS B18C
S2-Raw
03-25-2002, 06:39 PM
I love the way DUMBestics like to pick on me. :grin: (J/K some domestics are cool)
It was a sunny Saturday and I was crusing along minding my own busniss when a black Camero SS (1998-2001) pulls up screaming next to me. Right away he slows down to my speed and we're side by side going about 35 mph. I look over at the car and the passenger yells, "Wanna go for a run?" I give him the little nod, one quick down shift to second gear and we're off!
I went from -20 VAC to 7 PSI boost in less then a slipt second. Its times like this where I feel like going and shaking the hands of the boys down at Jackson Racing. As I'm passing up the Camero I look over to see the face of the driver and the passeger and they both looked like this, :eek: they couldn't believe a stock looking Integra was flying by the all mighty LS1. I got about 1 1/2 car lengths ahead of him going about 90 mph when all of a sudden we both had to slam on our brakes for a stop sign.
At the stop sign the passenger said, "Dam man, what is that thing? Turbo?" I smiled and told him it was supercharged. Then the passenger said "Lets go one more time on Three" "1....2....3!" They took off but my car stayed at a stand still just burning out. :cry: Like I said in other posts I hate launching. My car just won't launch. I left the line a 1500 rpm and it wouldn't stop spinning. What am I supposed to do launch at 1000 rpm? Or idle? If I can only get my car to hook up I can be having a lot more fun with domestics. They are by far the best cars to race.
_________________
1995 Integra GS-R
Jackson Racing Supercharger (7 PSI)
JR FPR
Walbro 342
AEM CAI
Heddmen Hedder
Random Tech Hi Flo Cat
Trust Cat Back
AEM PS Pulley
NGK Cold Plugs
ACT Stage 2 Clutch
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: GS-Raw on 2002-03-25 18:47 ]</font>
Poonstang
03-25-2002, 06:47 PM
I don't like your attitude but I like your car. Good kill.
EkHatch97
03-25-2002, 06:54 PM
What does the LS1 run stock i run 13.0 all motor and my friends say i can take a stock one fill me in on the stock 1/4 time....IM GETTING MY SUPERCHARGER by summer hehe
Poonstang
03-25-2002, 07:05 PM
The stock average driver can get low 13's out of it easy. Multiple reports have proven that high 12's are possible. A guy I know put a little over $1k into his and he hit mid 11's. Be careful when you race them, you can never tell what they have. If they sound like a crop duster, don't race it. If it sounds stock, go for it.
S2-Raw
03-25-2002, 08:01 PM
Hey PoonStang why don't you like my attitude ? :???:
BlackStang
03-25-2002, 08:08 PM
Nice kill,but you need better tires. :cool:
CRXTZ
03-25-2002, 09:07 PM
On 2002-03-25 20:02, GS-Raw wrote:
Hey PoonStang why don't you like my attitude ? :???:
he's jus sore 'cause you're cappen on dumbestics... i think, oh wellz, nice kill
peace
honda_95_LX
03-25-2002, 09:59 PM
nice kill man, sounds like you have a good setup. :grin: :grin:
buggout
03-25-2002, 10:27 PM
good story ...
i agree domestic owners think they're the shit !!!
1FastWS6
03-25-2002, 11:56 PM
On 2002-03-25 22:28, street legal wrote:
good story ...
i agree domestic owners think they're the shit !!!
Do they really? :evil:
HondaSport
03-26-2002, 12:06 AM
A JRSC'd GSR that runs that fast with minimal other mods? Im not really buying it. Was the LS1 an auto? You made it sound like you have a 12 second car with whats listed in your sig. Got any time slips?
I guess in all these guy's never words towards domestics, they forgot the moderator on this forum owns a domestic. :grin:
That is one quick way to get on my bad side!
I ran 12.83 in the 1/4 almost bone stock in my SS.
Luminaz34
03-26-2002, 11:11 AM
On 2002-03-26 11:08, xSSelerate wrote:
I guess in all these guy's never words towards domestics, they forgot the moderator on this forum owns a domestic. :grin:
That is one quick way to get on my bad side!
I ran 12.83 in the 1/4 almost bone stock in my SS.
Ya dont mess with us domestics lol We got xSSelerate to delete your trash talkin posts :razz: :lol:
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Luminaz34 on 2002-03-26 11:13 ]</font>
On 2002-03-26 11:12, Luminaz34 wrote:
On 2002-03-26 11:08, xSSelerate wrote:
I guess in all these guy's never words towards domestics, they forgot the moderator on this forum owns a domestic. :grin:
That is one quick way to get on my bad side!
I ran 12.83 in the 1/4 almost bone stock in my SS.
Ya dont mess with us domestics lol We got xSSelerate to delete your trash talkin posts :razz: :lol:
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Luminaz34 on 2002-03-26 11:13 ]</font>
Well I am not going to be unfair. But just make sure when you make a post that has more to do with a kill and less to do with just wanting to talk trash. That goes for domestics or imports alike.
JDM Civic
03-26-2002, 04:55 PM
yes the moderator does own a domestic. But the administrators own imports :grin:
Just kidding. Anything fast is cool to me.
GSR boy, you need to look into some drag radials or full out slicks if you suck at launching that bad.
this forum would be a lot better if it didnt always turn into a domestic vs import issue . same goes for a lot of the other forums . i dont think it will ever end . *sighs*, o well , i guess its cause the import guys know that domestics will always kick their asses :smile:
Anonymous
03-26-2002, 05:33 PM
hey gsraw...i thought u said u had a stage 4 s clutch on the old board... :???:
S2-Raw
03-26-2002, 05:51 PM
Stage 4? :???:
Do they even make that?
If they did I would have one hell of a sore left leg by the time I got to work.
S2-Raw
03-26-2002, 06:07 PM
Hey Hondasport,
I'm not on this board to make up fairy tales.
I don't post a lot, but when I do, you can count on everything being truthful and to the best of my knowledge.
I don't have any time slips or dyno reports, as my car is not completed yet. During this upcoming summer I will be installing the Hondata Stage 2 Standalone and a 11 psi Pulley. This will all be dyno tuned and timed. Then, if you like, I can post my numbers.
Hondasport, I'm not trying to start a flame war but I just don't like being called a liar and would appreciate if you can reconsider your comments before posting negative remarks toward me in the future.
_________________
1995 Integra GS-R
Jackson Racing Supercharger (7 PSI)
JR FPR
Walbro 342
AEM CAI
Heddmen Hedder
Random Tech Hi Flo Cat
Trust Cat Back
AEM PS Pulley
NGK Cold Plugs
ACT Stage 2 Clutch
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: GS-Raw on 2002-03-26 18:09 ]</font>
JgASOHC
03-26-2002, 09:46 PM
If there's fish in the pond, go fishing. If ya know what I mean. :wink:
2point2
03-26-2002, 10:46 PM
great kill, good detail, this is the kind of kill story i like to read.
and for you domestic owners, give the guy some slack, he beat an LS1, because a few ppl can hit 12's stock in an SS doesnt mean everyone does, like xSSelerate told me, some SS's will be more powerful then others, they aint all the same...vary from 315-325 rwhp stock? is it kevin?
dont ruin the kill for him, and dont try to be an ass. :smile:
Max'dLude83
03-26-2002, 11:19 PM
Yeah guys, let cut the bullshit flag until it is sickly obvious that he his lying. We wouldn't like it if others would always cut us down when we posted a kill.
speedemon69
03-26-2002, 11:35 PM
Thats what i was thinking, i hate when people post something and someone argues b/c they dont think its possible or sounds realistic. Whats there to lie about? NOthing.
On 2002-03-26 22:47, h22civicSi wrote:
great kill, good detail, this is the kind of kill story i like to read.
and for you domestic owners, give the guy some slack, he beat an LS1, because a few ppl can hit 12's stock in an SS doesnt mean everyone does, like xSSelerate told me, some SS's will be more powerful then others, they aint all the same...vary from 315-325 rwhp stock? is it kevin?
dont ruin the kill for him, and dont try to be an ass. :smile:
You would be correct in saying that. In fact at our dyno day last week we had ranges from 305 up to 335 to the wheels. So they can vary quite a bit depending on mods and factory build time.
S2-Raw
03-27-2002, 08:41 PM
On 2002-03-26 22:47, h22civicSi wrote:
great kill, good detail, this is the kind of kill story i like to read.
and for you domestic owners, give the guy some slack, he beat an LS1, because a few ppl can hit 12's stock in an SS doesnt mean everyone does, like xSSelerate told me, some SS's will be more powerful then others, they aint all the same...vary from 315-325 rwhp stock? is it kevin?
dont ruin the kill for him, and dont try to be an ass. :smile:
I really appreciate the support H22. Thanks :smile:
2point2
03-27-2002, 08:58 PM
no problem :wink:
projectaccord11
03-29-2002, 07:26 PM
I am personally an Import fan. I just love the way they sound, as compared to a big terdy v-8. I Belive in most cases that technology wins races, not displacement. And truthfully, no import that I have ever seen besides a Supra TT has as much torque as a v-8. So besides not having to downshift 3 times to go up a slight incline, I'm with the imports dude..sorry.
PIT KING
03-29-2002, 10:50 PM
On 2002-03-29 19:27, projectaccord11 wrote:
I am personally an Import fan. I just love the way they sound, as compared to a big terdy v-8. I Belive in most cases that technology wins races, not displacement. And truthfully, no import that I have ever seen besides a Supra TT has as much torque as a v-8. So besides not having to downshift 3 times to go up a slight incline, I'm with the imports dude..sorry.
how do imports sound?
projectaccord11
03-29-2002, 11:30 PM
like a little buzz bomb :smile:
hmm.. my goal is to get away from the buzzing sound and get that raunchy growl from my *soontobe* civic :smile: although it prolly be raunchy netime soon...
EkHatch97
03-30-2002, 10:21 AM
^ Get the SPOON SPORTS EXHAUST THATS LOUD AS HELL will def make ur car sounds mean
On 2002-03-29 19:27, projectaccord11 wrote:
I am personally an Import fan. I just love the way they sound, as compared to a big terdy v-8.
I was unaware that my car sounded terdy.
And displacement is part of technology. That is part of the reason Honda can't seem to develop a good V8. They just cannot grasp the concept.
El Jefe
03-31-2002, 10:33 AM
On 2002-03-30 10:40, xSSelerate wrote:
On 2002-03-29 19:27, projectaccord11 wrote:
I am personally an Import fan. I just love the way they sound, as compared to a big terdy v-8.
I was unaware that my car sounded terdy.
And displacement is part of technology. That is part of the reason Honda can't seem to develop a good V8. They just cannot grasp the concept.
yet honda makes v10's for formula 1
They dont make v8's because they have no need for it. their target market doesnt require it - mainly females. Its not like they cant make a good v8, they just choose not to.
They are in the business to make money, they target females because this is a very large segment where money making has its most potential. Dont think honda hasnt 'grasped' the technology, they pioneered vtec before anyone else did.
Im not 100% sure, but arnt CART cars running on v8's? and honda makes them too.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: El Jefe on 2002-03-31 10:40 ]</font>
I could be wrong, but I am pretty sure CART cars are V6s. Camless V6s which allows them to rev extrememly high.
I know Honda could make a V8. I have no doubt about that. But like you said, they won't cause that is not the type of car honda makes.
v8rcul8r
03-31-2002, 02:06 PM
::drools thinking about vtec v8 . . . ::
Dont think honda hasnt 'grasped' the technology, they pioneered vtec before anyone else did.
What, exactly, is all this "technology" behind VTEC? IMHO they didn't pioneer shit -- BMW pionered consumer variable valvetrains, and theirs was actually engineered.
VTEC is just one of those edges to give economy cars enough breath to get up to speed on the highway safely. Calling it technology is insulting. For comparison, it's like adding another preset level in a one-level video game. Whereas, real variable valvetrains are realtime AI -- they use hundreds of tables and pickups to calculate and actuate the lift and duration.. ideal breathing at any RPM.
The engineers at companies like Honda know how to design economy cars. But just because they're good at it, it does not mean they are experts at the harder concepts in motorsports. It would be against their money making agenda for Honda to hire engineers that are experts in fields that Honda is not exploring. They're still a baby in the world of motorsport (and cars in general) and like America, they need to learn what experience has taught everyone else. BIGGER IS BETTER!
v8rcul8r
03-31-2002, 04:05 PM
Game set and match . . .
Poonstang
03-31-2002, 06:08 PM
On 2002-03-31 15:59, jonl wrote:
What, exactly, is all this "technology" behind VTEC? IMHO they didn't pioneer shit -- BMW pionered consumer variable valvetrains, and theirs was actually engineered.
I was gonna post this earlier, but my computer crashed. :grin: Ferrari and other companies also used VTEC years before Honda had even thought of using it.
S2-Raw
04-01-2002, 08:07 PM
I'm sorry but did I miss something? When did this become a Import VS. Domestic Thread. Every freaking time I post a domestic kill the same shit happens. When is everyone gonna learn, there will never be an end to this rivalry. If people are going this far off topic it might as well be locked. Lets just cut the BS and go back to giving me props! :grin: (J/K) HaHa
El Jefe
04-01-2002, 10:36 PM
On 2002-03-31 15:59, jonl wrote:
Dont think honda hasnt 'grasped' the technology, they pioneered vtec before anyone else did.
What, exactly, is all this "technology" behind VTEC? IMHO they didn't pioneer shit -- BMW pionered consumer variable valvetrains, and theirs was actually engineered.
VTEC is just one of those edges to give economy cars enough breath to get up to speed on the highway safely. Calling it technology is insulting. For comparison, it's like adding another preset level in a one-level video game. Whereas, real variable valvetrains are realtime AI -- they use hundreds of tables and pickups to calculate and actuate the lift and duration.. ideal breathing at any RPM.
The engineers at companies like Honda know how to design economy cars. But just because they're good at it, it does not mean they are experts at the harder concepts in motorsports. It would be against their money making agenda for Honda to hire engineers that are experts in fields that Honda is not exploring. They're still a baby in the world of motorsport (and cars in general) and like America, they need to learn what experience has taught everyone else. BIGGER IS BETTER!
why did honda hold the patent until recently on vtec technology if bmw had it first?
if honda didnt pioneer vtec, then why are we always refering to it.. people refer the new nissan neo-vvl system as 'similar to honda's vtec'. I dont care who invented it, it was honda who made people aware of this technology.
heres a quote from edmunds: "Honda was the first to offer what it called VTEC in its Acura-badged performance models like the Integra GS-R and NSX (it has since worked its way into the Prelude and even the lowly Civic). VTEC stands for Variable Valve Timing and Lift Electronic Control. It basically uses two sets of camshaft profiles-one for low and mid-range rpm and one for high rpm operation. An electronic switch shifts between the two profiles at a specific rpm to increase peak horsepower and improve torque. As a VTEC driver, you can both hear and feel the change when the VTEC "kicks in" at higher rpm levels to improve performance. While this system does not offer continuously variable valve timing, it can make the most of high rpm operation while still providing solid driveability at lower rpm levels. Honda is already working on a three-step VTEC system that will further improve performance and efficiency across the engine rpm range.
Toyota saw the success Honda was having with VTEC (from both a functional and marketing standpoint) but decided to go a different route. Instead of the on/off system that VTEC employs, Toyota decided it wanted a continuously variable system that would maximize valve timing throughout the rpm range. Dubbed VVTi for Variable Valve Timing with intelligence (Is this a dig at Honda, suggesting their system isn't intelligent?), Toyota uses a hydraulic rather than mechanical system to alter the intake cam's phasing. The main difference from VTEC is that VVTi maintains the same cam profile and alters only when the valves open and close in relation to engine speed. Also, this system works only on the intake valve while VTEC has two settings for the intake and the exhaust valves, which makes for a more dramatic gain in peak power than VVTi can claim.
Several other manufacturers, including Ford, Lamborghini and Porsche have jumped on the cam phasing bandwagon because it is a relatively cheap method of increasing horsepower, torque and efficiency. BMW has also used a cam phasing system, called VANOS (Variable Onckenwellen Steuerung) for several years. Like the other manufacturers, this system only affected the intake cams. But, as of 1999, BMW is offering its Double VANOS system on the new 3 Series. As you might have guessed, Double VANOS manipulates both the intake and exhaust camshafts to provide efficient operation at all rpms. This helps the new 328i, equipped with a 2.8-liter inline six, develop 193 peak horsepower and 206 pound-feet of torque. More impressive than the peak numbers, however, is the broad range of useable power that goes along with this system. Take it from someone who's driven the new 3 Series and who loves torquey engines-it works!"
if you read that, you will realise bmw has used variable valve timing for 'several years' whilst honda has used it for over a decade.
and you dont think vtec is technology? what do you define as technology? vtec allows cars to perform better with the same displacement regardless of size. why are you insulted that vtec is called technology? sure there are better examples of variable timing but dont take anything away from vtec.
If you are insulted by vtec, why dont you ddesign something better?
El Jefe
04-01-2002, 11:03 PM
vtec is not 'new' technology but it was amazing when it first came out. if its not, why do they even use it? because it sounds good? maybe its just something to brag about...
sure the new valvetronic engine from bmw introduces 'new' technology, wow, no throttle butterfly is used. I bet you in 10 years everycar will have this (what you deem as 'technology') or better. As you can see, BMW is not making this for their race cars only yet it does benefit them also.
Dont let your hate for honda blind you that vtec was an advancement in TECHNOLOGY.
honda cant run with the big boys in motorsports? cant handle the harder 'concepts'? why are they even producing an engine in F1 if this was the case? why are 2 teams stupid enough to use a honda engine?
the nsx is very successful against the skyline and the supra in Japan's GT races.
Honda cant 'grasp the harder concepts of motorsports'?? please.....
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: El Jefe on 2002-04-01 23:36 ]</font>
86ludesi
04-02-2002, 09:47 PM
If BMW is such a "Great" engine manufacturer for making the 600 horse engine in the McLaren F1 why did the McLaren F1 team choose to get Honda to build the engine for their car. With that engine McLaren won many races but were getting negative comments for being german and running with an asian engine. So McLaren got BMW to make there engines and then lost every race and then decided to get Mercedes to make there engine and so far their best finish is a second place. WOW!!! Also why does GM buy Honda engines for their higher model saturns? And why can't an american car survive in Japan but Japanese cars can survive in America?
IceCold4x4
04-02-2002, 10:28 PM
Congrats on the kill, but one thing, I personaly don't like the new camaros, and mustangs, or imports for that matter. I prefer my original truck. Sadly it burned 2 years ago. Now I do respect these cars, i have to admit having a sleeper '85 truck bark tha back tires at 60 is fun as hell. The drap dropping on both sides of the camp is just as equal. But if i could have only fixed the aerodynamics of that brick. And some help for the launch, u might want to try slipping the clutch a little, btw maybe you need to go to a higher gearing, i mean get more mph, that would make it a lil easier, and also getting wider and stickier tires help. I don't know what would fit under your car, but i would recomend at least 285's, z rated and c compound IMHO. See my old bady here. http://www.ford-trucks.com/pictorial/big/1986_f150_8.html
90HBSleepr
04-02-2002, 10:36 PM
On 2002-04-02 22:29, IceCold4x4 wrote:
Congrats on the kill, but one thing, I personaly don't like the new camaros, and mustangs, or imports for that matter. I prefer my original truck. Sadly it burned 2 years ago. Now I do respect these cars, i have to admit having a sleeper '85 truck bark tha back tires at 60 is fun as hell. The drap dropping on both sides of the camp is just as equal. But if i could have only fixed the aerodynamics of that brick. And some help for the launch, u might want to try slipping the clutch a little, btw maybe you need to go to a higher gearing, i mean get more mph, that would make it a lil easier, and also getting wider and stickier tires help. I don't know what would fit under your car, but i would recomend at least 285's, z rated and c compound IMHO. See my old bady here. http://www.ford-trucks.com/pictorial/big/1986_f150_8.html
Did you ever take your truck to the track?
PIT KING
04-02-2002, 10:39 PM
On 2002-04-01 22:37, El Jefe wrote:
On 2002-03-31 15:59, jonl wrote:
[quote]
Dont think honda hasnt 'grasped' the technology, they pioneered vtec before anyone else did.
What, exactly, is all this "technology" behind VTEC? IMHO they didn't pioneer shit -- BMW pionered consumer variable valvetrains, and theirs was actually engineered.
VTEC is just one of those edges to give economy cars enough breath to get up to speed on the highway safely. Calling it technology is insulting. For comparison, it's like adding another preset level in a one-level video game. Whereas, real variable valvetrains are realtime AI -- they use hundreds of tables and pickups to calculate and actuate the lift and duration.. ideal breathing at any RPM.
The engineers at companies like Honda know how to design economy cars. But just because they're good at it, it does not mean they are experts at the harder concepts in motorsports. It would be against their money making agenda for Honda to hire engineers that are experts in fields that Honda is not exploring. They're still a baby in the world of motorsport (and cars in general) and like America, they need to learn what experience has taught everyone else. BIGGER IS BETTER!
why did honda hold the patent until recently on vtec technology if bmw had it first?
i think honda just had a patent on the name VTEC not the technology.
IceCold4x4
04-02-2002, 11:11 PM
90HBSleepr, I never got the chance to take it to a 1/4, something about dad said no way in hell, but i did do a few informal stopwatch 1/4 miles best i got was high 13's, but from stop light to stop light nothing would touch it, it was 4 wheel drive, thank god for that np205 transfer case and C6 tranny, it launched hard enough in 2 wheel drive to pull the passenger tire off the ground took me forever to figure out why the posi-traction wasnt leaving 2 12.5 black strips.